Dougie’s Friday Mailbag (Canelo vs. Billy Joe Saunders, Old Badasses)

CANELO VS. SAUNDERS

Hello Dougie,

I used to be studying previews of this weekend’s Canelo vs Saunders combat, and the consensus of opinion appears to be that Saunders has precisely the model to offer Canelo some huge issues on Saturday evening.

Is that this the sort of combat that Golden Boy might need steered Canelo away from, had that partnership endured?

I’m questioning if the free agent Canelo is a little more cavalier about matchmaking than the model of Canelo that relied on a promoter to assist information his profession.

Additionally, how do you see Canelo vs. Bernard Hopkins shaking out had they fought at 168? How about Saunders vs Hopkins? Thanks Dougie. – Gopal Rao

No disrespect to Canelo or Saunders however I feel Hopkins would outpoint each males at 168 (a division he leap-frogged in 2006). Take into account, you’re citing an all-time nice middleweight who was in a position to reign in opposition to the perfect mild heavyweights whereas in his 40s. You title a boxing model and Hopkins confronted it and most often mastered it.

Canelo may maintain it aggressive due to his ring command and punching energy, variation and economic system, however I nonetheless assume B-Hop could be too quick, busy and cellular on the surface, and too robust and cagey in shut, to permit any humorous enterprise with the official scorecards. Hopkins by shut however clear UD. I feel Nard would have some early rounds hassle with BJS however regularly tough him up on the within as soon as he closed the gap by the center rounds (which he would) and punish him down the stretch of a one-sided UD. Sorry, Saunders is an efficient, artful southpaw, however he’s to not the extent of a Joe Calzaghe or Chad Dawson the place I can think about his model would give him a shot in opposition to the Immortal One.  

Saunders was on level vs. David Lemieux however Lemmy ain’t Canelo. Photograph by AP

I used to be studying previews of this weekend’s Canelo vs Saunders combat, and the consensus of opinion appears to be that Saunders has precisely the model to offer Canelo some huge issues on Saturday evening. We’ll see. There’s little question that Saunders brings expertise, expertise and ring generalship to the large dance. He was a top-level beginner boxer and when he’s dialed-in he seems like an elite-level professional. Nevertheless, when he’s seemed elite, he wasn’t sharing the ring with elite boxers. No offense to David Lemieux, however he’s not in Canelo’s class. Neither was a fading Andy Lee, or the 18-0 model of Chris Eubank Jr., or Willie Monroe Jr., or 15-0 model of John Ryder, or the shopworn stays of Martin Murray, or any of the notable names on Billy Joe’s professional resume. I feel a variety of followers and media who’re anticipating Canelo to have hassle with Saunders’ model are fooling themselves by evaluating the Englishman to Erislandy Lara. BJS is gifted however not on the extent of the Cuban (particularly the 2014 model of the world beginner champion, who was/is sharper and extra elusive) and Canelo has drastically developed over the previous six years. We’ll see if the Mexican star has improved his ring-cutting prowess and assault in opposition to a cellular southpaw since dealing with Lara. My guess is that he has.

Is that this the sort of combat that Golden Boy might need steered Canelo away from, had that partnership endured? I don’t assume so. Canelo was at all times the boss, even after they have been on the perfect of phrases. He fought Lara when he did as a result of HE needed to. The nice of us at Golden Boy thought that was a dangerous combat (and so they have been proper) that might wait till later.

I’m questioning if the free agent Canelo is a little more cavalier about matchmaking than the model of Canelo that relied on a promoter to assist information his profession. Clearly, being a free agent opens up extra alternatives to face the highest tremendous middleweights of the assorted promotional corporations/broadcast platforms (primarily the PBC), however I feel his willingness (or objective) to combat the perfect and unify the 168-pound division is because of his confidence, which is at an all-time excessive and deservedly so. To paraphrase the Godfather of Soul, Canelo’s paid the associated fee to be the boss.

 

A BJS WIN WOULDN’T BE THE BIGGEST UPSET EVER

Hey Dougie,

Simply gonna throw my English old style tuppence value in on the Canelo/BJS combat.

I’m a very long time Canelo fan, from earlier than the Mayweather combat, though I bought peeved with him across the preliminary negotiations for the GGG combat and thought GGG gained each fights (GGG is my favorite fighter of the post-Mayweather period).

I’ve learn just a few occasions that if BJS wins, it’ll be the largest upset of all time. No method does something (together with Ruiz spanking AJ) ever high Tyson shedding to Buster. I watched that once more just a few months in the past and figuring out the consequence, listening to the commentary was sensible.

Canelo is a large favorite, and rightfully so after the blokes he’s been beating recently. Let’s not forgot that Callum Smith might have been the underdog however was the undefeated Ring Journal champ and Krusher is without doubt one of the largest punchers of the final 10 years.

Individuals speak about BJS getting walked via, however he has expertise, is a former Olympian and two weight world champion. While Billy doesn’t have enormous energy, he has sufficient to earn respect and is so awkward defensively when tuned in (and he seemed ripped the opposite day).

Canelo is an efficient puncher and rightly primary P4P, however in no way is he the second coming of Julian Jackson.

I’d be shocked, however not shocked with any consequence aside from a Canelo factors win or late stoppage and see BJS as a stay underdog.

Would an upset be the largest shock ever? Not for me, I contemplate the large shocks ones the place a supposed no hoper does one thing that no-one may comprehend (AKA Buster, The Raggamuffin Man, Kirkland Laing).

BJS ain’t a no hoper, he’s an unknown and at occasions unimpressive.

No salty right here. – James L

You might be undoubtedly not a member of the #Salty Society, James. I can see that. You give Canelo credit score the place it’s due. The #Salty set can’t deliver themselves to do this.

And I agree that Saunders is much from a “no-hoper.” He’s a legit tremendous middleweight standout. The person didn’t get to 30-0 as a professional accidentally. He can field is ass off and he’s bought the proper perspective for an underdog (which is to not give a f__k.) There’s so much that I like about Billy Joe’s ring presence and talent: He’s relaxed however he’s bought eyes and first rate upper-body motion. He’s bought an informed jab, and a quick, fluid left cross. He’s bought good lateral motion and management of distance. It undoubtedly wouldn’t be the largest upset ever if he outpointed Canelo.

Whoever’s saying that isn’t being attentive to the percentages. Saunders is a 4-1 or 5-1 underdog in most locations. To place that in context Evander Holyfield opened as a 25-1 underdog when he first challenged Mike Tyson. (I feel it dropped to round 17-1 by combat time.) Quite a lot of sports activities books wouldn’t even put up odds on Tyson-Douglas. I feel Buster was a 42-1 underdog.

I’m a very long time Canelo fan, from earlier than the Mayweather combat, though I bought peeved with him across the preliminary negotiations for the GGG combat and thought GGG gained each fights (GGG is my favorite fighter of the post-Mayweather period). That’s honest.

Canelo is a large favorite, and rightfully so after the blokes he’s been beating recently. Going through Golovkin, Daniel Jacobs, Sergey Kovalev and Callum Smith in his final six bouts ain’t too shabby.

Let’s not forgot that Callum Smith might have been the underdog however was the undefeated Ring Journal champ and Krusher is without doubt one of the largest punchers of the final 10 years. The #Salty Society will wail that Kovalev is a “has-been” and Smith is a “never-will-be” however none of their favourite fighters from 160-168 are lining as much as combat the enormous Liverpudlian or any mild heavyweight.

Individuals speak about BJS getting walked via, however he has expertise, is a former Olympian and two weight world champion. Properly, let’s simply say he’s a two-division titleholder. He outpointed an getting old Andy Lee for his 160-pound WBO belt, however who did he beat for the vacant 168-pound strap? Critically, I couldn’t let you know with out checking Boxrec. Canelo’s legit multi-division champion.

Canelo is more likely to assault the physique of Saunders, as he’s right here vs. Callum Smith. Photograph by Ed Mulholland/Matchroom.

While Billy doesn’t have enormous energy, he has sufficient to earn respect and is so awkward defensively when tuned in (and he seemed ripped the opposite day). There’s little question in my thoughts that Saunder’s is in the perfect situation he get his physique in, however even when he’s in the perfect form of his life, he’s nonetheless bought technical flaws that Canelo can exploit. Sure, he’s bought “awkward defensive” prowess, as you set famous, nevertheless it’s his offense that I’m involved about it. I simply don’t assume will probably be sufficient to dissuade or outpoint Canelo. BJS has a pleasant jab and 1-2 combo, and he’ll sometimes sneak an uppercut the place he sees match, however there’s not a variety of variation along with his offense. In the meantime, Canelo’s going to be strolling him down with authority. The Mexican’s method goes to be tight and each punch goes to be thrown with punishing leverage and intent. The jab’s gonna be a shotgun. The combos are going to be explosive to the physique (together with BJ’s arms) and head. The counterpunches are going to be fast and effectively timed. And Canelo’s not going to be straightforward to hit in return. His head- and upper-body motion rival Billy Joe’s, and he’s good and blocking and selecting off photographs.

Canelo is an efficient puncher and rightly primary P4P, however in no way is he the second coming of Julian Jackson. No person is, and that features Deontay Wilder and Naoya Inoue.

I’d be shocked, however not shocked with any consequence aside from a Canelo factors win or late stoppage and see BJS as a stay underdog. That’s honest. I feel Canelo will win a transparent UD in a aggressive match.

 

OLD MEN

Boxing has a well-earned popularity for being “No Sport for Outdated Males”. However every so often, I as a fan come throughout an aged fighter or two who remind me of the outdated saying, “Beware the outdated man in a occupation the place males die younger”. I consider guys like Archie Moore, George Foreman, Bernard Hopkins, and (most lately) Manny Pacquiao. Who’re some fighters you consider once you hear that expression? – Greg Ok.

Barkley-Duran is a contemporary traditional. Photograph / The Ring archive

Roberto Duran is the primary title that involves thoughts as a result of he was the primary “outdated man” – which within the Nineteen Eighties was a fighter in his mid-to-late 30s – who was nonetheless a participant, preventing repeatedly on TV and concerned in closed circuit occasions, again after I was a teen fan. He was 37 when he upset Iran Barkley for the WBC middleweight title in 1989. That efficiency was the epitome of “Talent, Brains & Guts” (the title of a well-liked Muhammad Ali tribute VHS tape), a real grasp class. He was an everyday on the USA Community’s “Tuesday Evening Combat” collection throughout his 40s, within the early to mid-‘90s, which led to a pair of PPV showdowns with Vinny Pazienza in 1994 and 1994 (which he misplaced, however the first bout was fairly aggressive – and entertaining).  

Foreman adopted Duran, and Larry Holmes adopted Huge George. If you wish to see a ballsy boxing clinic carried out by an outdated badass, please try the 12-round UD that the 42-year-old former champ scored in opposition to then-unbeaten 1988 Olympic gold medalist Ray Mercer in 1992.

Moore, Hopkins and Foreman are clearly the Holy Trinity of outdated badasses in boxing lore, however Holmes and a few of my all-time favourite boxers, together with Sugar Ray Robinson, Jersey Joe Walcott, James Toney, Erik Morales and Mike McCallum may occupy Mount Olympus with these three Timeless Titans.  

Robinson vs. Fullmer

Robinson took on fellow future corridor of famers Bobo Olson, Gene Fullmer and Carmen Basilio when he was in his mid-30s through the Fifties. He regained the title, misplaced it, regained it, misplaced it once more and regained it once more throughout that multi-bout collection that included thrilling shootouts (vs. Olson), an all-time nice KO (vs. Fullmer) and the 1957 and 1958 Combat of the Yr (vs. Basilio). Robinson was 39 years outdated when he held Fullmer to a draw (that almost all ringside press thought he deserved to win) of their third bout in December 1960. It wasn’t simply his age that made the efficiency so spectacular, it was the variety of fights he had on the time (his file was 144-8-2 going into the rubber match).

Walcott was in his late 30s (which within the early Nineteen Forties was like being in his late 40s) when he took on Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano within the ultimate 5 bouts of his hall-of-fame profession. He was 37 when he KO’d Charles (with a near-perfect left hook in Spherical 7) for the heavyweight crown, a file that may stand for 43 years (Foreman lastly broke it in 1994).

Toney was in his mid-30s when he earned The Ring’s 2003 Fighter of the Yr award by beating Vassiliy Jirov (within the BWAA’s Combat of the Yr) and Evander Holyfield.

Morales was in his mid-30s when he gave Marcos Maidana hell and stopped Pablo Cesar Cano to win a serious world title in a fourth weight class.

Younger Toney (proper) discovered so much from an getting old McCallum and would go on to be an outdated badass himself. Photograph from The Ring archive

McCallum was in his mid-30s for his first two battles with a younger James Toney. The Physique-Snatcher was 37 when he beat Jeff Harding for the WBC mild heavyweight title. He was 39 vs. Roy Jones Jr. and 40 for his third bout with Toney within the ultimate two bouts of his hall-of-fame profession.

Shane Mosley additionally involves thoughts. He was in his mid-to-late 30s when he outworked Luis Collazo, gave Miguel Cotto hell, and stopped each Ricardo Mayorga and Antonio Margarito.

 

 

E mail Fischer at [email protected]. Observe him on Twitter and IG at @dougiefischer, and be part of him, Tom Loeffler, Coach Schwartz and buddies by way of Tom’s or Doug’s IG Stay each Sunday.

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