Dougie’s Monday Mailbag (Canelo-Saunders, next for Canelo, Diego Corrales)

Photograph by Ed Mulholland/Matchroom.

CANELO-SAUNDERS

Wsup Doug,

So, Canelo vs. Saunders was a really entertaining combat, however Canelo has settled in to being that defensive counter puncher an excessive amount of and vs. southpaws like BJS you may’t try this, u gotta combat extra offensively on the entrance foot like Floyd did vs. Zab and Ortiz. Canelo bought touched with too many lefts and jabs for my liking. Additionally, Canelo ought to’ve pumped his personal jab extra.

A fighter who units a quick tempo will give Canelo suits (Charlo/Benavidez). I had it a draw or Billy Joe up a spherical, and I’m sorry he stop, such a disappointing end to an entertaining combat. – Darren

It was an anticlimactic ending to what I assumed was an fascinating type conflict (I wouldn’t name it “very entertaining”… I’m a Blood Thirsty Ghoul), however I assumed Canelo legitimately deserved to have at the least a slim factors lead going into the ninth. Saunders, who was skittish within the first three rounds, had his moments within the center rounds, however Canelo resumed management in Rounds 7 and eight.

Will a fighter who units a sooner tempo than BJ did give him extra hassle? Possibly. However the fighters you talked about – Jermall Charlo (I assume) and David Benavidez – will carry aggressive types to the problem, and Canelo’s A LOT higher vs. offense-minded, come-forward sorts. And as Billy Joe can attest, Canelo can do a variety of harm with these correct photographs of his.  

Canelo vs. Saunders was a really entertaining combat, however Canelo has settled in to being that defensive counter puncher an excessive amount of and vs. southpaws like BJS you may’t try this, u gotta combat extra offensively on the entrance foot like Floyd did vs. Zab and Ortiz. Judah and Ortiz weren’t cellular and elusive like Saunders. They have been aggressive hunters. Mayweather took away their sport by flipping the script and strolling them down. We didn’t actually see Floyd in with any stick-and-move specialists.

 

CANELO WINS… WAS THERE EVER ANY DOUBT?

Hello Dougie,

I hope you and your loved ones are nicely throughout these making an attempt instances; I bought my vaccine final week and hope everybody does the identical when potential.

B-Lister BJS thought he might wriggle out of a combat by making irrefutable calls for resembling ring measurement; boy, was he unsuitable. By no means since Haye acted so despicably for the Klitschko combat have I needed somebody to be so badly harm and embarrassed within the ring. I needn’t remind anybody of how misogynistic and disrespectful BJS has been at massive.

I anticipated Canelo to remain targeted, reduce off the ring, soak up some jabs, and slowly shut in throughout the spherical to harm BJS a few instances, for a UD. (I sat ringside for BJS’s combat towards Lemieux in Laval and wow he can run, albeit with implausible boxing acumen.) I hoped for him to be KO’d however predicted a UD. Canelo is simply too good and robust I used to be considering.

I wrote that above half earlier than the combat. It turned out even higher than I assumed. Boo BJS for retiring, he confirmed simply how a lot of a bully and coward he actually is.  True champions don’t try this.

Preserve ’em coming Canelo… ATG will not be out of attain, what do you suppose Dougie? – Mike M.

Nicely, he’s already a corridor of famer in my view, so he’s headed in the fitting route, particularly given his age. We’ll see how he finishes out this yr and what/who he goals for in 2022; he might conceivably make a case for greatness relying on the strikes he makes within the subsequent 18-24 months. However one factor is obvious, he’s at his peak proper now. I’m glad he’s not losing it.  

I hope you and your loved ones are nicely throughout these making an attempt instances; I bought my vaccine final week and hope everybody does the identical when potential. Thanks for the nicely needs, Mike. I bought my second dose on Friday, which suggests I’ll begin travelling to extra exhibits with extra confidence this yr. Woo-hoo!

B-Lister BJS thought he might wriggle out of a combat by making irrefutable calls for resembling ring measurement; boy, was he unsuitable. Is Saunders actually a “B-lister”? I suppose so. There weren’t any “A-listers” on his resume previous to going through Canelo. Nonetheless, I assumed he did OK towards THE A+ “A-lister” within the sport earlier than his eye socket bought crunched.

By no means since Haye acted so despicably for the Klitschko combat have I needed somebody to be so badly harm and embarrassed within the ring. what? The Hayemaker by no means triggered me. He simply appeared like a extremely smug dude (with expertise and charisma) who knew the best way to promote his fights through a polarizing persona. I don’t recall him crossing the road of decency aside from these gory and distasteful T-shirts he made from himself holding up the decapitated heads of the Klitschko brothers.

I needn’t remind anybody of how misogynistic and disrespectful BJS has been at massive. True, homebody has gone out of his technique to be a complete dirtbag.

I anticipated Canelo to remain targeted, reduce off the ring, soak up some jabs, and slowly shut in throughout the spherical to harm BJS a few instances, for a UD. Me too.

(I sat ringside for BJS’s combat towards Lemieux in Laval and wow he can run, albeit with implausible boxing acumen.) I used to be there, too. Who is aware of how that model of Saunders would have fared towards the middleweight model of Canelo in 2018.

It turned out even higher than I assumed. Boo BJS for retiring, he confirmed simply how a lot of a bully and coward he actually is. True champions don’t try this. Possibly not, however regular human beings do. And because you and I are mere people we shouldn’t be too onerous on Billy Joe.

 

ANOTHER NIGHT AT THE OFFICE

Hello Doug,

Hope you the household and workforce are doing nicely.

“Simply one other day on the workplace” is what Canelo tweeted after his win over BJS final evening. I believe the combat was nearer than he might have anticipated. A few of the pundits’ scorecards even had BJS up on the time of the stoppage. How did you rating it?

I believe Canelo’s early techniques to go to the physique was right and BJS took these photographs nicely. Man, you can actually hear them land. BJS appears to be getting again into the combat then Bang! What was stunning is that it was not as if Canelo was delivering a beating on BJS or had been concentrating on that eye all evening. However with that one punch from Canelo it broke BJS’s orbital or cheek bone. Canelo hits bloody onerous!!!

I felt that if the combat went on it could have been stopped the identical at some later level. Canelo was getting nearer and nearer to touchdown large photographs and there was no method BJS was holding him off all evening.

The long run. I can’t see something aside from a victory over Plant to unify the division for Canelo. Then the most important combat on the market for him is GGG? It’s a disgrace, I’d have cherished to have seen the trilogy earlier, however at 39 can GGG sustain?

What else for Canelo? Again as much as mild heavy? There was a time when Canelo Vs Bivol was talked about? Unsure that combat is so large now.

How about guys from decrease weights coming to combat Canelo at MW?

Spence

Crawford

Both Charlo brother?

It nearly appears he’s operating out of opponents?

Want BJS a full and speedy restoration. Do you suppose 168 is the fitting division for him or ought to he marketing campaign at 160 once more? He completed nicely towards Canelo till the stoppage and I’d favour him over Charlo and Andrade. The Eubank rematch is fascinating, within the U.Okay. at the least. There’s historical past there however I believe Eubank is far improved since their final assembly and a win over BJS places him proper the place he need to be.

MM:

Cobra Vs Latin Snake 168 (after the 80,000 at Wembley got here up final evening I assumed we would simply get it there after which!)

Calzaghe Vs Canelo at 168

GGG Vs Cobra

Doug Fisher Vs Dan Rafael within the commentary field

Sustain the great work! – Tabraze, London U.Okay

Hmmmm…. I gotta go together with Cobra over Snake through UD in a surprisingly aggressive match, Golovkin over Froch by MD in a Combat-of-the-12 months battle, and DTM over Yours Really by controversial SD.

I believe Saunders ought to stay at tremendous middleweight. He had his moments vs. the pound-for-pound king at this weight, why boil again right down to 160? Saunders-Eubank is a mouthwatering grudge match, large occasion within the UK, as you famous, however the pre-fight build-up (and s__t speak) alone would garner consideration of hardcore followers within the U.S. Saunders-Andrade is a stylistic stinker nevertheless it’s a makable combat with some backstory and, once more, the pre-fight promotion would in all probability be a variety of enjoyable. My guess is that Saunders would have a slight edge if he have been to get Boo Boo to return as much as 168 for that one.

“Simply one other day on the workplace” is what Canelo tweeted after his win over BJS final evening. I believe the combat was nearer than he might have anticipated. I believe the combat went EXACTLY the way in which he anticipated. When Canelo is on a seek-and-destroy mission, as he was vs. Amir Khan and Sergey Kovalev, he doesn’t care if he is perhaps behind on the scorecards at any level of the combat. He is aware of he’s going to shut the present.

A few of the pundits’ scorecards even had BJS up on the time of the stoppage. How did you rating it? I had Canelo up by two factors (and in agency command) going into the ninth.

I believe Canelo’s early techniques to go to the physique was right and BJS took these photographs nicely. I agree 100%.

BJS appears to be getting again into the combat then Bang! What was stunning is that it was not as if Canelo was delivering a beating on BJS or had been concentrating on that eye all evening. However with that one punch from Canelo it broke BJS’s orbital or cheek bone. Canelo hits bloody onerous!!! He’s not a quantity puncher and he’s not a one-punch KO artist, however he does a variety of harm together with his selective photographs.

The long run. I can’t see something aside from a victory over Plant to unify the division for Canelo. To not give a proficient boxer like Plant any shot is a testomony to Canelo’s capacity and stature within the sport proper now.

Then the most important combat on the market for him is GGG? Is it? I suppose it may very well be if it have been to be hosted by AT&T Stadium. If Canelo can draw 73,000 with BJS, the third bout with GGG might do 90,000.

It’s a disgrace, I’d have cherished to have seen the trilogy earlier, however at 39 can GGG sustain? They’re gonna should combat the combat to reply that query.

What else for Canelo? Again as much as mild heavy? That’s an possibility.

There was a time when Canelo Vs Bivol was talked about? Unsure that combat is so large now. It’s not. Bivol is simply one other proficient beltholder like Plant or Andrade. These guys must combat different up-and-coming standouts to separate themselves from the pack. Bivol must combat Beterbiev. The winner of that combat has the fitting to name out Canelo. Plant must combat Benavidez. The winner of that combat has the fitting to name out Canelo. Andrade must combat Charlo. The winner of that combat has the fitting to name out Canelo.

How about guys from decrease weights coming to combat Canelo at MW? What makes you suppose Canelo would drop again right down to 160 for anyone?

SpenceI don’t see this as a aggressive combat. Spence was taken the 12-round distance by Shawn Porter, Mikey Garcia and Danny Garcia, and Porter – the one pure welterweight – gave him hell.

CrawfordIdentical deal, though I believe Bud’s versatile type might enable him to be extra aggressive than Spence. However backside line is that these guys aren’t middleweights, not to mention tremendous middleweights.

Both Charlo brother?These are aggressive fights (at the least on paper). They’ve bought the peak, attain, athleticism, talent, method, expertise and fireplace to offer it a go. I’d favor Canelo, tho.

It nearly appears he’s operating out of opponents? That wouldn’t be the case if the highest middleweights and tremendous middleweights fought extra typically and fought one another.  

 

CANELO NEEDS A REAL CHALLENGE

Dougie,

Watched the combat final evening—meh. One other straightforward contact for Canelo. Assuming he fights Plant (zero probability Canelo loses that one) subsequent, that might imply his 7 most up-to-date fights can be: Fielding lol, Jacobs first rate however not harmful, a store worn washed up Kovalev, a mediocre at greatest Callum Smith, Yildrim no remark, and BJS extremely overrated by no means was. Positive Canelo is sweet sufficient to make all these look lopsided nevertheless it’s not precisely a assassin’s row, removed from it in reality.

Once I have a look at Canelo’s resume, I see three severe challenges to this point. GGG which I believe he misplaced as soon as and gained as soon as. Lara, I had Erisandy successful a razor skinny determination and Mayweather who dominated a younger Canelo and gave him a lesson.

I get it, I get it he’s the star and might select who he fights blah blah. Don’t get me unsuitable Canelo is a certain corridor of famer and a high 2 or 3 pound for pound, however let’s not anoint him an all time nice till he takes the intense challenges on the market. I’d a lot want to see him combat Charlo, Benavidez, even an previous GGG once more and the most important problem of all Beterbiev. I distinction that with Hagler previous few fights, Leonard, Mugabi, Mustafa. Hearns and Duran.

I’m not a hater of Canelo however after I switched off the TV and gratefully bought into mattress I assumed to myself this man loses to Calzaghe perhaps not simply however he loses. Canelo is perhaps on high in the present day when it comes to field workplace but when he desires to cement his place among the many all time greats he wants to hunt out actual challenges not simply first rate to common opposition that poses little danger, and the media ought to cease carrying his water when it comes to proclaiming him an all timer till he does.

Regards. – Aaron in Miami

No offense, Aaron, however my hunch is that there’s nothing Canelo can do to make you view him as even a possible nice.

You dismiss his victories over Jacobs, who was the No. 2 middleweight on the time; and Kovalev, who was the No. 2-rated mild heavyweight on the time; Smith, who was the Ring champ and No. 1 within the ESPN and TBRB rankings on the time; and Saunders, who was Ring’s No. 4-rated tremendous middleweight going into Saturday’s showdown.

And also you speak like he was a giant failure in his “three severe challenges” to this point, like he must be embarrassed for going 1-1 (in your view) with GGG, who was a world newbie champ, an Olympic silver medalist, an unbeaten, long-reigning champ and No. 1 in Ring’s pound-for-pound rankings after they fought; for shedding a “razor-thin determination” to Lara (in your view), one other world newbie champ and the No. 1 junior middleweight on the time; and for being outclassed by Mayweather, an Olympic medalist, the reigning P4P King on the time, and a first-ballot corridor of famer, when he was 23 years previous.

He hasn’t even fought Plant but and also you’re already dismissing The Ring’s No. 2-rated tremendous middleweight.

However in some way, I’m imagined to imagine that you just’ll give him credit score for preventing Charlo, Benavidez, GGG (once more) and Beterbiev? I’m not shopping for it, Aaron. Saunders has a greater resume than Charlo or Beterviev and also you referred to as him an “straightforward contact.” BJ’s owns choices over John Ryder and David Lemieux (presently Nos. 6 and seven in Ring’s tremendous middleweight rankings), in addition to Chris Eubank Jr. (Ring’s No. 6-rated middleweight). Charlo’s bought one legit middleweight contender on his resume, Sergey Derevyanchenko (No. 4). Benavidez has one legit tremendous middleweight contender on his resume, Anthony Dirrell (No. 5).

If Canelo beats them and makes it look straightforward, you’re going to name them “straightforward touches” too. There’s no method you’re going to declare Canelo an ATG if he beats Charlo and/or Benavidez.

And everyone knows what you’ll name GGG and Beterbiev in the event that they lose to Canelo – “previous.”

I get it, I get it he’s the star and might select who he fights blah blah. Bro, he’s selecting to combat higher opposition than the fighters you declare will give a correct problem.

Don’t get me unsuitable Canelo is a certain corridor of famer and a high 2 or 3 pound for pound, however let’s not anoint him an all time nice till he takes the intense challenges on the market. How is Charlo a extra severe problem than Saunders? How is Benavidez a extra severe problem than Plant? They’re all the identical, and it’s their fault for not preventing one another. Golovkin is a future corridor of famer, however he’s 39. Don’t lie and inform me you’re gonna give Canelo extra credit score for going through GGG now than you probably did in 2017 and 2018. Beterbiev is 36 and he didn’t appear like a world-beater vs. Adam Deines. Proper now, you’ll liken the Russian to Rocky Marciano. If and when he fights Canelo you’ll be saying his “previous and plodding.”

 

DIEGO CORRALES IN THE HALL OF FAME

Hello Dougie,

All the very best to you and yours from me and mine. Whereas the remainder of the boxing world discusses Canelo Alvarez’s spectacular if predictable destruction of Billy Joe Saunders, I’d identical to to thanks for Joseph Santoliquito’s article in regards to the anniversary of the dying of Diego Corrales. He was one in every of my favorites of that period and it’s onerous to imagine that 14 years have handed since his dying. My query – why hasn’t he been positioned within the Corridor of Fame? It’s a no brainer to me. Thanks for all of your nice work for the game we love. – Ken Kozberg, Oakham, MA

Thanks for the sort phrases, Ken. I’ll move them on to Joe.

Corrales closes out probably the most epic combat of the 2000s.

That’s query about Corrales. Personally, I believe he’s worthy. He’s bought victories over two borderline corridor of famers, Jose Luis Castillo and Joel Casamayor, and he gained the best combat of this period (the epic first encounter with Castillo). Plus, he beat an elite (or near-elite) stage two-division titleholder in Acelino Freitas, in addition to the standard likes of Robert Garcia, Derrick Gainer and Angel Manfredy. It’s a wonderful physique of labor.

The one purpose I can provide you with for BWAA members/IBHOF voters not giving Chico the inexperienced mild is the truth that he was dominated by Floyd Mayweather Jr. and was an excessive amount of of a “brawler” for his or her style. But when that’s the rationale, why is Arturo Gatti enshrined within the IBHOF? Possibly if Corrales had the HBO push that Thunder had. Should you recall, most of Chico’s highlights occurred on Showtime. That shouldn’t matter, after all, however belief me, HBO was the be-all-end-all of American boxing. I believe as we get farther away from that period, newer voters will discover and re-evaluate Corrales’ profession and provides him his due.

 

GGG VS. BSJ

Doug –

How would Saunders do towards the GGG we noticed vs Szeremeta? – Kevin Key, Duluth, MN

What If?

I believe he’d do nicely. I don’t suppose he’d win, however I’m sure he would have his moments within the combat, in all probability throughout the center rounds, he would possibly steal just a few late rounds too. Nonetheless, whereas Golovkin has slowed down a bit with age, and not commits to the physique the way in which a chief Canelo does, he’s nonetheless lots busier (particularly together with his world-class jab) than the Mexican star. I believe GGG’s energy and precision would hold BJ trustworthy within the early rounds. As soon as the Englishman warmed up, I believe his stick-and-move sport would earn him some rounds because it did vs. Canelo, however he’d nonetheless should deal with that ram-rod jab (in addition to GGG’s ring-cutting stress). Golovkin’s age would possibly present over the second half of the bout however I additionally suppose Saunders’s can be worn out down the stretch. If BJ made it to the ultimate bell, my guess is that GGG would have landed the more durable punches that might impress the official judges and he’d earn a detailed determination.

 

CANELO-SAUNDERS

Pricey Mr. Fischer,

Simply learn the remark of Dan Rafael in regards to the Canelo vs. Saunders combat on ringtv.com. Studying that, the combat was a one-sided demolition of BJS: “…whereas additionally seizing Saunders’ WBO title in a damaging efficiency through which he broken Saunders to the top and physique and left him slumped on the stool with a battered proper eye after the eighth spherical.” And that appears to be the consensus view of the judges and the boxing media.

Truly, I’ve seen a reasonably aggressive combat and had it like 4:4 or 5:3 for BJS. In all probability BJS would have misplaced with out the slumber within the additional course of however till the top of spherical 8? I had the identical drawback with the feedback of Lopez vs. Loma (keep in mind, I used to be high-quality with Lopez’ win however not close to as impressed as all of the boxing consultants). I’m a member of the #salty-canelo-league however I’m not a giant fan of BJS both. So this time I used to be not even biased. Now to my questions:

  1. Is it potential that from the TV-couch a combat seems fully totally different to what you see from press row? (btw. I had fairly good seats at MSG for the King vs SSR I and nonetheless couldn’t get how the judges scored that combat).
  2. How did you see the combat?
  3. Did BJS stop or was his eye harm critically? (I’m not blaming anyone for not risking his eyesight). But when the attention “solely” was shut…?
  4. If the scorecards have been okay on the time of the top of spherical 8 no one can win towards Canelo on factors. (That assertion is barely a repetition of the scorecards vs. GGG).
  5. I don’t see anyone 168 or beneath who can knock him out.
  6. So, after amassing the belt from Plant (I’ve little question that it will occur in September) what combat may very well be intriguing?
  7. Do you see any of the younger weapons coming as much as 168 and being a problem earlier than 2025? Who may very well be the primary? Vergil Ortiz?
  8. Are you able to envision Canelo going as much as 175 and unify all belts? (If that’s the case Canelo can be an ATG even in my view).
  9. What does Canelo must do to be an All-Time-Prime 10 across the basic middleweight (from the 8 weight courses period)?

Finest regards. – Matthias, Germany

Thanks for sharing, Matthias. I assumed the combat was aggressive, however not as aggressive as you and a few of my revered friends seen it.

Is it potential that from the TV-couch a combat seems fully totally different to what you see from press row? Completely. Being on press row or seated up shut you get a greater “really feel” for who’s touchdown with extra affect. On this case it was positively Canelo. Having mentioned that, DAZN commentators Chris Mannix and Sergio Mora thought BJ was doing fairly nicely, and so they have been fairly darn near the motion. (I agreed with Carl Froch’s view of the combat.)

How did you see the combat? I assumed it was aggressive. I had Canelo forward 77-75 (as one of many official judges scored it), or 5 rounds to a few. I scored Rounds 4-6 for Saunders. Might it have been nearer than that? Positive. I suppose I might have given the opening spherical to BJ. Then once more, I might have scored Spherical 4 for Canelo.

Did BJS stop or was his eye harm critically? In response to Eddie Hearn, he suffered a number of fractures to his orbital space and needed to bear surgical procedure. I’m not a physician however that feels like a severe damage.

If the scorecards have been okay on the time of the top of spherical 8 no one can win towards Canelo on factors. I assumed the official scorecards have been truthful. A fighter merely has to do greater than Saunders was doing if he desires a lead on the scorecards going into the late rounds vs. Canelo (or any opponent).

I don’t see anyone 168 or beneath who can knock him out. I don’t see anyone TRYING to knock him out. Canelo is barely 5-foot-8 however he intimidates the s__t out of a lot greater opponents. No one with a transparent top and attain benefit desires to attempt to impose their measurement upon him. Let’s hold it actual, these dudes are nervous about letting their palms go towards Canelo.

So, after amassing the belt from Plant (I’ve little question that it will occur in September) what combat may very well be intriguing? I believe the Plant combat is intriguing, but when the combat occurs and Canelo is victorious, the 2 matchups that I’d be most excited by are Benavidez and Jermall Charlo (ideally in Texas, the place the most important attendance is feasible). I’m not saying they’ve any higher probability of beating Canelo than Plant does, I identical to the way in which their types mesh with Canelo’s higher.

Might we see the Towering Inferno attacking Canelo like this at 168 kilos at some point?

Do you see any of the younger weapons coming as much as 168 and being a problem earlier than 2025? Who may very well be the primary? Vergil Ortiz? Not Vergil. I believe 154 might be his ceiling. However Jaime Munguia can be simply high-quality at 168. Sebastian Fundora actually has the body to hold 168 kilos (and I believe he’ll at some point). Edgar Berlanga is already at tremendous middleweight and will risk develop right into a legit contender (he would make for a marketable opponent for Canelo). And perhaps one or two from that bunch of up-and-comers from Central Asia – which incorporates Bektimir “Bek Bully” Melikusiev (Uzbekistan), Zhanibek Alimkhanuly (Kazakhstan) and Meiirim Nursultanov (Kazakhstan) – might finally transfer up (or drop down in Bek’s case) to tremendous middleweight.

Are you able to envision Canelo going as much as 175 and unify all belts? Yeah, it could be a tricky problem however not inconceivable.

What does Canelo must do to be an All-Time-Prime 10 across the basic middleweight (from the 8 weight courses period)? Nothing. He can’t. He’s at tremendous middleweight now and he’s not going to drop again right down to 160. And whereas his physique of labor at middleweight ain’t unhealthy, it’s a lightweight yr away from the resumes of the best middleweights of all time.

 

 

E-mail Fischer at [email protected]. Observe him on Twitter and IG at @dougiefischer, and be a part of him, Tom Loeffler, Coach Schwartz and mates through Tom’s or Doug’s IG Stay each Sunday.

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